Posted: May 2003
courtesy of http://www.newsarama.com
Graduation Day is only a third of the story. The May-shipping miniseries
gives birth to two new series, both with old names, Teen Titans (by
Geoff Johns and Mike McKone) and Outsiders (by Judd Winick and Tom Raney).
According to Winick, the name, and one cast member is the only thing
Outsiders has in common with its predecessor.
Going way back, the first incarnation of an "Outsiders" group
was when Batman formed a team of relatively new heroes back in 1983
after The Brave and the Bold had run its course. The title was the home
to Black Lightning, Metamorpho, Halo, Katana, Geo-Force, and later Looker.
After thirty-three issues, Batman left, and the series continued as
The Adventures of the Outsiders for fourteen more issues before being
cancelled.
The Outsiders spun out of Zero Hour in 1994, and lasted for a year,
before getting the axe.
Got it? Good. Now forget all of that - it doesn't matter a bit as far
as the new series goes.
The new series (just Outsiders, by the way - no "The") picks
up the pieces from Graduation Day and while it looks to be the older,
former Teen Titans and later Titans in a new book, it's not really like
that, according to Winick. But don't listen to us - Winick can explain
it better.
Newsarama: From the outset, and given that Graduation Day is the event
which gets them here, is Outsiders in a sense "Titans Sr."
and everyone once again falls in around Dick Grayson?
Judd Winick: Not at all - actually Nightwing is the very last one on
board, which I kind of like. The Titans ended basically on Dick Grayson's
say-so, and going back to Pérez and Wolfman and earlier, the heart of
the book has always been Dick, even when he hasn't been in it, here
and there. So, for a team to go on in some fashion, it does have to
go back to Dick, but he wasn't willing to do it this time. So - Arsenal
picks it up.
Basically, Roy forms a loose semblance of a team in Dick's absence,
and then poses it to him to join up, which Dick doesn't want to do.
That leads to the first adventure, which makes a point, and better clarifies
why Dick thinks there should be a team, and also how the Outsiders are
taking an entirely different approach to being superheroes.
NRAMA: How so?
JW: They're not going to be firemen - their job is not going to be
to sit around, monitor the situation, and wait for things to happen.
To use a hackneyed expression, they're going to be a little more proactive.
NRAMA: Yeah - but over the last two years, every team was going to
be more proactive according to its creative team. How's this going to
be any different?
JW: You have to remember that Dick was trained by the world's greatest
detective. He's going to be using those skills a lot in putting leads
together, and hunting. That's the jumping off point at least, and I'm
hoping that it leads elsewhere.
In all truth, I was kind of given marching orders when given this book
in that DC wanted something that felt more eclectic and youthful. The
JLA are the gods of the earth - they're huge - they're the gigantic
characters. The marching orders took that into account, and didn't want
to duplicate that. I was told, in essence, to "bring the X-Men
to DC." We really haven't seen that or had something that feels
like that in a while at DC.
NRAMA: So you're going to be endeavoring to set up a whole new dynamic
in Outsiders? Something with a Claremont and Byrne flavor?
JW: Right. With Storm and Wolverine, you don't think of them on the
same level as you do with the JLA, really. Despite the success, there's
still a sense of them being on the fringe - they're behind society,
and not necessarily in the spotlight. They're never in the papers -
it's never been about the publicity with the X-Men. That's what I want
to get the feel of with the Outsiders.
I also want to get into a feel of having one adventure leading right
into another. Byrne and Claremont did an amazing job with that - they
could do a two or three issue story arc, but when the story is done,
the team was, logically, somewhere else, starting a new story. They
may start in Canada, but by the time the story is done, they're in the
Savage Land, ready to get the ball rolling again. And then they're split
up again, and the storylines move from there. There was all this amazing
storytelling, but it wasn't something that you could hang your hat on
- it was always moving.
If I do my job correctly, Outsiders should look and feel different
than what we've seen at DCU in a while. That's what I was told to do,
and that's what I'm shooting for.
NRAMA: When you were given your marching orders for what kind of book
DC wanted, were you also able to go through DC's Who's Who and pick
and choose your team members? You seem to have some…interesting
choices in there.
JW: I was allowed to pull whoever I wanted that fit, really, but I
wanted more new characters. I wanted some old, but definitely wanted
some new. There should be enough older characters that longtime readers
will be drawn in, but the whole basis of the book lends itself to the
idea that there should be new people as well. So some are, some aren't.
We've got Nightwing, Arsenal, Jade, and Metamorpho, who's a nod back
to the old days, and is either the most loved or hated characters in
the DC Universe, depending on your point of view. He's an incredibly
overlooked character that I really wanted a crack at. We're having a
lot of fun with him.
And then, we've also got a nod to the older days by bringing in Black
Lightning's daughter, Thunder, which is also going to be very interesting.
Black Lighting will also play a part in the story here and there as
well [Black Lightning, like Metamorpho was an original member of The
Outsiders team back when it was Batman and]. So it's a mix. We've also
got Grace, who is a super-strong bouncer that was working at a metahuman
club.
Creating characters is probably one of the best things I do, so I'm
hoping that people will find some of the new faces likeable enough to
come back for more.
NRAMA: So, in essence, you're going to be playing with some of the
old guard and dipping into history while aiming to keep things accessible
with the new characters?
JW: Yeah - and bringing back some older, maybe forgotten characters
and update them so they'll essentially be fresh to everyone. The fourth
issue, for example, starts with four of what I think are the lamest
villains at DC that the team is fighting it out with. It's almost the
point of the issue for the team - "why are we fighting these lame
villains?"
Both Geoff [Johns] and I are really big fans of third, fourth, and
fifth tier, completely forgotten, ridiculous characters that no one
likes. Metamorpho doesn't necessarily fall into that category, but he
falls into the category of being one of the more ridiculous characters
of the DCU. So we sort of reinterpreted him and reinvented him a little,
and tried to give him some respect. But if there's a lame character
we're pulling in, we'll do right by them..
NRAMA: Looking at the cover of first issue - Tom seems to have captured
the feel of "why am I here with these kids?" with Metamorpho…
JW: Yeah - very much so.
NRAMA: Is that going to be his role with the team, though? The crusty
older guy?
JW: Nope - to give the take on Metamorpho would be giving it away,
but he's not going to be the crotchety old guy of the team.
NRAMA: What about the new girl, peeking out from behind Arsenal?
JW: Her name is Indigo, and we'll leave it at that.
NRAMA: As in Indigo from Graduation Day?
JW: There you go.
NRAMA: And now we'll leave it at that?
JW: Yeah - now we'll leave it there.
NRAMA: So tease - the first arc - how long is it?
JW: It runs for the first three issues, and I'm enormously confident
that if people pick up the first three issues, which are done, and Tom's
drawing them now - they'll stick around for the rest. I'm so proud of
this - they're such a strong three issues I was almost worried with
the fourth issue, because I had a real feeling of "Where do I go
form here?" The first arc is big - giant, it makes sense, and has
the things I want - giant action, great characters, and humor. I got
to play up a lot of humor and action along with some great big, "Holy
shit!" page-turners. I'm playing with all the big toys. It's no
longer a matter of turning the page, and you see it's some third or
fourth string villain who's suddenly supposed to be a credible threat.
So credible, that he has to have nine captions underneath the image
explaining who he is, and you're still left with the feeling of "Who
the hell is this now?" No - I'm playing with the big guys.
It comes together really well, I think.
NRAMA: So, does the team have it's mission and goals set as the story
unfolds? Where do things pick up?
JW: That's the thing - their mission isn't laid out until the end of
the first arc. By the end of the first three issues, they'll agree that
this little adventure and battle has proven that there is a need for
a team like the Outsiders, but the key members want to go about it in
a different way than how they did it with the Titans, and in that regard,
even different from how the JKA does it. After all, the JLA are the
guardians of the planet, if not the universe. The Outsiders will be
smaller in scale.
NRAMA: So tease the story…
JW: This adventure starts with Arsenal telling Dick that he and a few
others are thinking about starting a team, and Dick basically telling
Roy to go to hell - he's not interested in doing it anymore. Arsenal
clarifies things a bit, and tells Dick that he's not asking him to form
one, but rather, to join one - he's been putting things together for
over a month.
From there, we flash back and see Arsenal gathering up these people
that he thinks will make for a good team. Back in present day, an ocean
liner is hijacked, but we don't know by who. By the end of the issue,
as Dick is introduced to the people that will make up the team that
Arsenal wants to start, the ocean liner docks, and an army of 1,000…oh,
do I even need to say it?
NRAMA: It's your book, man…spill.
JW: Oh come on, it's me writing this…an army of 1,000…with
guns…oh hell - it's an army of 1,000 gorillas. Gorilla Grodd and
his army are invading New York City.
NRAMA: [laughter] Okay…
JW: Hey - I was laughing my ass off as I wrote it too - I love my job.
So that's where we're off to - and that's just the first issue. It
ends with the Outsiders headed off to save New York from an army of
gorillas.
The next issue picks up with the fact that the President of the United
States - the DCU version, of course, so we're talking Lex Luthor - is
in New York at the time, so they have to get him the hell out of Dodge
while 1,000 giant, intelligent gorillas are roaming the city and strategically
taking over large chunks of it.
The third issue….ah, hell…I can't even talk about it.
NRAMA: And through it all is a story about a team forming, and realizing
that there is a need for them, and they can do more good together than
apart?
JW: Right. That's what was posed to me by Mark Waid when I was talking
to him about the series, back before I had started writing it. Mark
asked me what the need for the team is, and why they are doing it. I
told him it was an excellent question, and I didn't know. He told me
to think about it, I did, we talked about it some more.
What I want to do is make it a different team - not one that's on the
sideline, waiting for a bell to go off, which is how most other teams
work.
NRAMA: As the series progresses, are you going to stayt to a strict
team, or will you be pulling other characters in?
JW: There might be people hopping in and out. I think Geoff has made
great use of that in JSA, and that keeps things interesting. Once we
have established the main team, and people have gotten to know the characters,
we'll probably branch out from there. But, initially, I'm going to concentrate
on these folks, because people don't know some of them. They don't know
who Thunder is, and they don't know who Grace and Indigo are. Also -
Metamorpho has to be reintroduced.
Part of the push on this book is that if you've never read Titans,
Young Justice, or, especially, the old The Outsiders series - you'll
be comfortable, because I'm going to be working to make any and everyone
comfortable with the characters that are there. That said, there will
be loads of guest stars - they're allowing me to play with all of the
big toys.
NRAMA: All? No offense, but it was sounding like Outsiders was headed
towards being a fringe book, a last outpost before limbo…
JW: Hey - I'll have my share of dusty limbo characters, but I'll be
pulling in the big toys as well when needed. DC has decided to loosen
up a little bit in regards to not driving themselves completely nuts
over continuity, as far as a character is somewhere during one month,
so they can't be anywhere else.
They've really recently come around to the point of view that, unless
a character has had his head blown off in another comic that month,
let's try not to hinder the stories. There's a new edict out there now
that has really loosened the reins and allow writers to utilize the
entire DCU. And I'm doing just that - aside from someone getting their
head blown off, of course. I'm able to use them and utilize them to
make the story work.
So, by issue #6, I can say that there will be some major guest stars
for the climactic battle of the third arc, which is another massive,
ka-boom, type battle, which will change parts of the DCU forever…or
at least until next year. But before then, we've got great things planned
for this series, and I'm very, very happy with it.
