Phil Jimenez on Titans
>> Phil on Comic Book Art
>> Phil on Titans and JLA/Titans
>> Phil and Tempest
>> Phil and Donna Troy
Phil on Comic Book Art
There's no arguing, after all, that Phil Jimenez has done great things. A devotee of Pérez, Jimenez seems able to integrate the best qualities of his favourite artists into his own distinctive style. The Tempest mini, for instance, distinguished itself not only by the script Jimenez wrote, but also by artist's devotion to a beautiful, meticulously detailed, and unique depiction of the undersea kingdom: one of the finest artistic representations that Atlantis has ever seen.
In fact, his authenticity when it came to drawing the title character's attributes became almost infamous. With his disdain of artistic exaggeration - such as is typified by the spine-bending, thimble-waisted, Image Grrl Pose - there is, perhaps, none better to portray DC's inestimable Amazonian Princess and draw us deeper into the mythos and mystique that makes Wonder Woman command attention.
Sequential Tart: So what got you into comics?
Phil Jimenez: What got me into comics? God, this is kind of a tough question. I was always a friend of Superfriends and cartoons and the like when I was a kid, but I wasn't into comics much. I was always a big fan of Wonder Woman and Bionic Woman. But then, what really got me into comics so that I started reading them was a friend of mine in 7th grade showed me some X-Men comics because he wanted me to copy some pictures out of them. And then I started reading them and I kind of fell in love with them. I was also a big fan of soap operas which sort of helped because there's that ongoing, serial aspect, I think, was always there.
ST: So even as early as 7th grade, you were known as the kid who could draw?
PJ: Oh, yeah. I was drawing from the time I was 3 or 4. So, except that I tended to draw dragons for boys and unicorns for girls. I'd draw all these creatures. So instead of doing my math homework, I would be drawing mythological animals and people could see that I could draw. And then this boy I knew was reading X-Men and said hey could you draw this? And, you know, I did a relatively good job at it. So that's my official Secret Origin.
ST: What did you like about Wonder Woman?
PJ: What did I like about Wonder Woman? That's a good question. That's a constant source of internalized analysis for me. around What is it about Wonder Woman? I know what appeals to me now about the character has to do with her background.
I know what appeals to me now about the character has to do with her background. She's an Amazon, it's a Greek mythology thing, the fact that she's so strong, the fact that in my head at least, she's this incredibly good human being. Like, she's almost an iconically good human being, and therefore something to aspire to. Like, she's kind, she's good with children, she talks to animals, the whole thing. Yet at the same time, you know, she can cave your head in. I think that dichotomy I find particularly fascinating.
[...]
ST: What was your first pro work and what are you proudest of?
PJ: My first pro work, the first published of mine, was War of the Gods 4. The first artwork I actually ever did but was published after War of the Gods was a cyborg story in Showcase 93. The work I'm probably most proud of remains ... This is sort of a two-sided question. Tempest is probably the work I'm most proud of. JLA Titans is the work I've had the most fun on.
ST: George Pérez is a major influence on your art, but who are some of your other influences?
PJ: In comics, the two I can cite right off the bat would be Brian Bolland and, I don't know how to pronounce his name properly, Rioki Akigami, the guy that draws Crying Freemen. Those two more than any others are people that I look to for sort of inspiration and, you know, if I need to swipe something. That's where I go. Just because I think that technically those two artists are so skilled it's frightening.
Outside, my biggest influences, my biggest help back in college, I'm a big fan of 18th, 19th century Japanese print work. And I just think that line work and that technique was very, very helpful for me in college and still has an influence.
ST: Which leads to my next question. When I look at some of those massive pages that you and Pérez draw with 80 or 90 characters on them, one of them, this one page you drew kind of reminded me of Michelangelo's Last Judgement, just how you laid out a lot of people on one page. And have you ever looked at non-comic or classical pieces of art to help you figure out how to lay things out?
PJ: Actually ... Never for layout that I'm conscious of. Most of my layout skills have come from what I've learned from George and what I learned on my own. Like, I'm not a great anatomist, I'm not a great drawer ...
[...]
ST: Why do you say that?
PJ: It just means I don't think I am. People like Adam Hughes and Brian Bolland - they're much anatomists, they're much better drawers. But I think my skill is in design. I mean, I just think that's what I have a knack for. Laying out a page, putting, you know, figuring out ... designing a page. Like, designing a way a picture looks, an oil picture. I think that's where my strength lies.
I often flip through ... Actually, I'm looking through it right now, it's a book called The History of Art, and there's another one. I'm very prone to flip through them. I can't think of consciously lifting from them so much as just being inspired by them and reminding myself of how far I have to go to become a full and true artist. If that makes any sense?
ST: Back to comics, what's your dream project?
PJ: The dream project is a problem. I have a dream project. I've been pitching it to DC now for over a year. It remains a problem because they have no place to put it. I've been told quite frankly that it would be a marketing nightmare, and they don't think they could find a place for it there.
ST: Does it star DC characters?
PJ: No, and that's the problem.
ST: Have you ever thought about going to another comic company? With Image or something?
PJ: Well, I have, actually, though, the DC/Wildstorm merger is interesting for me because it's a place that ... They were suggesting I go to Cliffhanger. Now, Cliffhanger is technically owned by DC. So what I'm interested in doing, actually, is uniting the two. Getting the Wildstorm production end and the DC editorial end, you know? Sort of be the first, in my idea, the first DC/Wildstorm project where it combines the talents of both companies. That's how I want to pitch it now, I've decided.
Phil and the Titans
Sequential Tart: When I think of you and your art, when I hear your name, I automatically think of the Titans. What do you like so much about the Titans?
PJ: George Pérez. I've found that my Titans reading had everything to do with the type of life I felt George instilled in those characters. Because when George left, for the most part, so did I. I tried to read it, but I really kind of realized how much he had to do with it.
What he and Marv did, I think, on that book was create fairly accessible people. These are characters people thought of as their friends almost. They were definitely one of the most accessible group of characters in comics. They were young, they had some problems, they were pretty, but I think just a lot of it ... my favorite character in comics has always been Wonder Girl. I think that a lot of it has to do with just the type of character I believe George made her. I really do think a lot of it just has to do with the sort of life that he gave them. Yeah.
[...]
ST: Besides the fact that it was going to be huge, what was the thing that appealed to you most about the upcoming JLA/Titans crossover?
PJ: Part of it, you see, that was really appealing about it was its scale. The reason I haven't done sort of an ongoing superhero book is just because things have become sort of slow and mundane. And the story craft was just really big. There were a lot of characters and I got to basically draw everyone I've ever cared about. So that was it's primary appeal. Plotting this sort of epic visual adventure. I just think DC's crossovers have been so bad the past few years and like these big epics just have no life.
ST: They're epics just to have an epic.
PJ: Yeah, and the thing is ... What struck me about a book like Crisis on Infinite Earths is that most of my friends who were around reading comics at that time can remember lines of dialogue, they can remember panels, they can remember specific imagery. And I can't think of too many other major events like that where people say 'Oh, do you remember this?' and can seriously cite a panel or words that came out of a character's mouth. And I'm interested in exciting readers like that again.
Like having a whole new crop of readers who - wow, this is pure ego - a whole new crop of readers who would talk to their friends and say 'Oh do you remember when Superman did this' or 'wasn't it cool when Wonder Woman lifted the train on this page' or have them ... Like, the thing about, for example, DC 1000000 that I thought was sort of interesting was that everyone really seemed to like it and I read it and it was sorta fast past and exciting, etc. But I put it down, and I don't remember a thing.
People would ask me what it's about and I don't ... I remember a certain vague, all over sense that this event happened, but I don't remember oh, this one certain specific event, or a panel of art that really touched me. And that's what I'm hoping to do with JLA/Titans.
ST: Do you think the story idea stands on its own merit? I mean, what appeals to you about the story that you want to tell?
PJ: The basis of the story, sort of thing, epic, bleah bleah bleah, revolves around family and what that word means to different people. And the conflict between the JLA and the Titans ultimately comes down to what's more important, the fate of the world or the fate of a family member.
Like, if, the world is crumbling around you, are you trying to save the world or are you trying to save the one person. You know? That conflict, I think, meant a lot to me. It's the needs of the many to the needs of the one. It's a very interesting argument. And that's what we got to play with.
That's the whole annoying theme of this whole thing. It's that the Titans are standing up for someone they consider family, and the JLA is saying 'Look, you're doing that, but people are dying'. You know? Is it worth it? And that's the conflict that I thought was interesting.
[...]
ST: What was your first pro work and what are you proudest of?
PJ: My first pro work, the first published of mine, was War of the Gods 4. The first artwork I actually ever did but was published after War of the Gods was a cyborg story in Showcase 93. The work I'm probably most proud of remains ... This is sort of a two-sided question. Tempest is probably the work I'm most proud of. JLA Titans is the work I've had the most fun on.
above info courtesy of http://www.sequentialtart.com [2001]
Phil and Tempest
Sequential Tart: Did you think that Tempest would be the huge critical success that it was? When I look at Kingdom Come, which came out that year, I think that Mark Waid and Alex Ross were very conscious that they were creating art with a capital A, you know?
PJ: Right. (laugh)
ST: Did you think that there would ever be a lot of people who would think 'Tempest ... yeah!'
PJ: Actually, I had no idea ... No, the fact that people continue to write me letters about it. Like, I still get emails about this thing that essentially came out almost two years ago ... it makes me very happy that it has a shelf life. That people go back. And I think they're generally happy with it. You know, it's not like they're trying to blow sunshine up my ass as it were. They're not trying to say we love it because we love you.
Cause in comics, as you know, it can be strange. I just think they liked it. I was not expecting much of it. I remember hearing that the first issue sold better than anyone expected and it was really hard to find. And at a convention in Australia that I was at, it was really hard to find. And people were just telling me in this convention in Australia that it sold really well.
And everyone was just shocked and surprised. Everybody's thinking if you take a character who's name is Aqualad and put him in a miniseries, you're kind of taking your chances. But, yeah, I guess I was shocked and very happy. And I'm happy because ... for no other reason than people ... I got a couple letters that said it was over plotted, and I kind of believe that, but people really seemed to like it.
ST: Over plotted how?
PJ: People just thought it was a little ... dense. My work tends to be sort of dense. Like, there was so many elements that I introduced, so many background elements that I introduced, and if you missed any of them, you sort of miss ... I don't see that it was over plotted, but I can imagine it being a little tricky, because if you miss something here, that could be a little tricky.
But beyond that, bleah bleah bleah, everyone seemed to like it, and nothing makes me happier than generating work that is worth people's investments. Because in my mind, everyone who buys my comics is basically paying my rent. And if they're doing that, they need to get something out of it. Like, if they're going to spend their hard earned money on my stuff, I want to make them happy. And to hear that I made them happy was really rewarding.
ST: What do you think people like the most about the Tempest series?
PJ: Obviously the letters column in the back touched a lot of people. I think they liked the art a lot. Comments that I heard a lot was that no one wants to read Aquaman because they can't relate to it and they don't like the underwater stuff.
What they liked about this was that it created this underwater world. And I heard that a lot from people. 'I don't like underwater adventure, but I like this.' I definitely think they liked the emotional subtext. I think the last couple pages of the series where he says goodbye to his girlfriend touched them. Yeah, I think that would be it. I think people really liked looking at it. I think people thought it was pretty.
ST: Yeah, yeah, it was hard on the eyes.
PJ: (laugh) That would just be my thought. The thing about DC is that I don't think they have a lot of pretty art. Like, art that's really pretty to look at. That's sort of a goal of mine, to make art that will make people want to look at it. And I think it's why I'm not so hyperstylized.
Because, I think my art tends to be fairly accessible to a broad range of people. Like, I don't tend to push in any particular direction. Like, it's fairly ... I don't want to say realistic, but ... it's not overly cartoony, it's not too dark, it's not too manga-ie. It's accessible to a lot of people.
[...]
ST: What was your first pro work and what are you proudest of?
PJ: My first pro work, the first published of mine, was War of the Gods 4. The first artwork I actually ever did but was published after War of the Gods was a cyborg story in Showcase 93. The work I'm probably most proud of remains ... This is sort of a two-sided question. Tempest is probably the work I'm most proud of. JLA Titans is the work I've had the most fun on.
above info courtesy of http://www.sequentialtart.com [2001]
Phil and Donna Troy
Sequential Tart: Who is your favorite Titan character and why?
PJ: Again, that would be Donna Troy, pre-Darkstar days. The whys are two fold. One is of course the Greek mythology origin, which I'm a sucker for. Two is because in my head this character would probably be one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. And nice not in a saccharine way but just someone who is generally concerned about the well being of other people.
If there's a sort of person in comics, like a role model, that I would inspire to be like, and it would be her. Just because I truly believe, at least when I work with the character, that she's the type of person who would help you for no other reason than you needed help. And she believes that that's the right thing to do.
ST: Did you have fun exploring those issues in that Donna Troy one shot that you did?
PJ: Yeah, actually. I was a little saddled down with the fact that they were trying to make her this dark jinx sort of thing. That kind of irritated me because that didn't come from me, that was editorial. But, yeah, that was the whole point. Despite the fact that I was asking some questions that I've had through the character ... like, there was a scene where she brings this homeless woman some food. Well, I've actually spoken ... that homeless woman is based on someone I've spoken to.
And it was just ... Just a sort of inherent belief, and I could be wrong, that Donna Troy is the type of character who would see a homeless person and think they're hungry and wouldn't second guess that. And because she's sort of privileged and has money and is sort of who she is, she would help her. She would try to provide that person shelter or food or whatever. And I do think that Donna Troy is the type of character who wouldn't understand why people hate each other. It wouldn't make sense to her.
And so, yeah, I did have ... cause that's sort of a question that ... why do people hate each other? ... I struggle with often and she's the sort of character that I can ask those questions through. That was very long winded.
ST: No. But it was very fascinating. Just between you and me, it's the one Girl Frenzy book we're out of at my husband's store.
PJ: I'm told that it's the one everybody liked which makes me happy.
ST: It's the one that nobody could keep in stock.
PJ: Cool.
Sequential Tart: Which of the current versions of Wonder Woman and - since I know you have strong opinions about her - Donna Troy, do you most admire and why?
Phil Jimenez: Obviously, the George Pérez inspired versions are the ones that move me the most. I think the version of Wonder Woman I admire the most is anyone that stays true to her core -- the version that believes to the pit of her soul that human beings can live in peaceful coexistence with each other, and believes its her mission in life to give people the proper tools to do just that. I think that's a lovely, incredible admirable goal and sentiment; I appreciate any version of Diana where that's an overt aspect of her character. As to Donna -- well, her Wonder Girl persona back in the 90's -- the smart, gorgeous, super-powered epitome of perfection is the one that I admire.
ST: Referring to the question above, do you have a least favorite depiction of either character (for instance, something either character did that struck you as discordant)?
PJ: Any version of Diana working in a fast food restaurant; Donna's time as a Darkstar and girlfriend to Green Lantern, particularly in his book, where she came off as a complete bitch.
[...]
ST: I've read that you have strong positive feelings about Donna, as I've mentioned. In light of the enmeshment of both women, what is the difference between Donna and Diana? To your mind, who is the better woman? For instance: Whom would you rather sit in a coffee shop with?
PJ: I guess it depends on the day. In my head they are different women, though. Diana is the more archetypal in that she is bigger than life. She is an icon. She is a goddess, and probably less accessible because of it. But I would love to talk to her about how to change the shape of the world. Donna is like a far more human character. She's far more accessible and she's such a different person than Diana.
Donna is like the sort of everywoman type. Her character is far closer to us and easier to relate to simply because Diana is so archetype and iconic. Donna you could joke with, sit with, whatever. In fact, I just wrote a scene (that was heavily edited) where the two sisters were talking about dating lives, sex, and Donna's having a baby, being married, divorced, etc. Diana is the eternal virgin as part of her archetype and also (in my opinion) because of just bad writing.
But it almost makes sense in some strange way that Donna is more human and has more human experiences than Diana. Yet Diana's experiences are bigger, broader and more enormous in terms of scope and whom the experiences affected. So when it comes to hanging out it would depend on the day and what we were talking about.
[...]
ST: Loving the character of Donna Troy as you do, I have to ask, what did you think of the whole Avatar thing?
PJ: It's very frustrating. Another frustrating concept is having to fight all those years of story and continuity. Many fans come in and say Diana is like this and have years of stories that prove she did this or that. But I'm concerned with her now, you know?
above info courtesy of http://www.sequentialtart.com [2001]
from a Phil Jimenez interview by Derek McCaw on fanboyplanet.com [2001]
DM: You seem very comfortable with Donna Troy. You mentioned that an early plan with Rucka was for you to do Troy back-ups. So are you comfortable with what Byrne did to explain her character?
PJ: No. I get it, I understand it. I think it's so much more complicated than it ever was before. But I understand it linearly. I mean, I drew it, that poster that's coming out of those Titans covers, that's her history linearly. It's not like IÉ ecchÉ. I just get it.
The point about what's easiest for me with that character is just to ignore the thousand multiple horrible lives and for all intents and purposes ignore the "oh, she's a cheap carbon copy of Diana," and just play her as Donna Troy. The Donna Troy that we all know and love, which is not to ignore anything that anyone else has done. It's just to say that a lot of those elements aren't helpful for telling good stories with her. And people get wound up about the minor details. I say, what did everyone love about Donna, and play off that stuff.
I probably make her a little more girly than people like, just because it amuses me to do so. And partly because I think she's a fashion photographer who's been involved in that world for five years, at least. A very short amount of time, actually; she's only 24. This is a woman who's surrounded by models and photographers and fashion and art people, and I suspect she does very well in that world. So, I tend to play her as being a little more cognizant of it. She's a little more into the latest fashions and stuff. Not because she'sÉjust for workÉnot because she's snotty or anything. I think she would know that stuff, that's why I dress her up.
